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Second Round: Lexington - Dustin Rhodes vs. Rick Martel

I'm just not that impressed with Martel beating a 50 year old man on the brink of retirement.


But your opinion means absolute DICK here. Men like Bockwinkel, Batista, and DDP prove that age means nothing in wrestling. You can win your first world titles at ANY age. It's all about your star power. Bockwinkel was a pioneer in the business and helped put men like Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, and Rick Martel on the map.

When exactly did I disregard the title? Saying it wasn't held as in high regard as the WWF or NWA world titles isn't me disregarding the AWA title, it's stating facts.


But your facts are false. I already proved that Martel's world title win was at a time when the WWF was nowhere near its peak. Shit, even the WWE'S title was below the NWA title back then.

But at that time, the AWA ruled the airwaves. They were the only programming to be televised on ESPN (television's premier channel for sports) during a time when television sets barely had 13 channels. That makes it a MUCH bigger deal than the WWE.

The WWE only had television programming on MTV, which was a flea on a horse's ass compared to what it is today.

The AWA, once again, is now 100% proven to have been superior to the WWE at the time of Martel's world title reign, thus making him relevantly the most important man in pro-wrestling at the time (aside from Ric Flair holding the NWA title).

You prove it wouldn't be like that.


Are we playing patty-cake here? I don't need to prove shit. My side of the story actually happened and yours didn't. I'm assuming that reality is enough proof for you? :disappointed:

Nice job trying to cover up your bullshit statement. The WWF got just as much talent from other promotions as they got from AWA. There is no chance in hell 90% of the talent was from AWA. If someone wants to look at the WWE roster from a certain year and count up where everyone came from then be my guest but you know as well as I do that 90% was a ridiculously absurd number to use.


*YAWN* You know, my percentage is probably off, but if you're going to bank your entire side of this debate on this minor detail then you've truly lost here.

One title that was superior to the AWA title.


I said nothing about superiority. I gave you a history lesson that you OBVIOUSLY needed. You called the NWA a "promotion." You couldn't have been more wrong.

Actually, the WWF(E) was a part of the NWA umbrella for a while. And so was the AWA, considering that the NWA champion would frequently visit the promotion to wrestle. Hell, I even remember that Ric Flair came to the AWA while holding the NWA championship and wrestled it's world champion, Nick Bockwinkel, to a double countout. Ric Flair couldn't even beat Bockwinkel, the AWA champion, in his prime as an NWA champion. But guess who DID beat Bockwinkel? Yup... Rick Martel. That makes Martel better than Flair when Flair was the NWA champion. That also means that the AWA champion was better than the NWA champion at the time.

The NWA was a hybrid and definitely a superior title. But once you prove that Dustin Rhodes was even 10 miles close to winning it, I'll back off this debate.

What? The AWA was never really as big as the WWF let alone after Hogan had become champion.


Um... yes it was. Actually it was bigger. It was the first pro-wrestling promotion to get television syndication, the first to get a weekly television spot on ESPN, the first promotion to hold a pay per view... should I go on? What, did you think Vince created EVERYTHING? :lmao:

First of all, this statement has nothing to do with the thing you replied to. I said Rhodes US title win was on par with Martel's AWA title win. What does that have to do with the WWE title?


Let's recap then. You said the AWA title (at the time) meant as much as the WCW US title. Just prior to that we were speaking about the WWE title's prestige during the time when Hogan won it. I mentioned that the WWE title didn't mean jack shit until Hogan won it. So my previous statements that proved you wrong about the amount of prestige that the AWA title had versus the WWE title make my reply in this case to be completely relevant.

When was the AWA title bigger the the WWE title anyways? I'll take Bruno Sammartino, Bob Backlund, and Billy Graham over Verne Gagne and Nick Bockwinkel any day.


That's really easy to say, 30+ years after the fact. Like I said multiple times in this debate, your opinion means absolute dogshit. Facts are facts. Sure, we view Backlund, Graham, and Sammartino as being superior legends. After all, the WWE survived the territory war and had 30-years to repaint their legacy and brainwash everyone into thinking they were always the top dog. You're a perfect example of that.

Big Sexy, you're speaking to a person that LIVED through the golden age of wrestling... not READ about it (like some people). When Hogan won his title, if it weren't for the constant replays of his match with the Iron Shiek on MTV and the channel's quick rise in popularity, no one would have heard about Hulk Hogan's epic win over the Iron Sheik. It's amazing how 30 years, Wikipedia, Vince's marketing ploys, monopolization of territorial wrestling, and WWE Home Video can change things in the minds of the viewers.

The AWA was never ahead of WWF or NWA. The AWA at it's best was on par with the other promotions. You can talk about Martel's nearly two year title reign, but you have yet to mention how the AWA's audience began to leave while Martel was champion.


You think it was because of Martel?

Or Vince raiding their talent pool? Or the rise of a superstar named Hulk Hogan? Or disagreements under the umbrella of the NWA title? Either way, Martel defeated a man who (two years prior) Hulk Hogan couldn't take a title off of.

I don't blame Martel but he obviously wasn't some great champion that was bringing in audiences. He was a right place, right time guy.


And Martel was a world champion. Who was Rhodes drawing in? What has he done that is NEARLY on par with the accomplishments that I've mentioned by Rick Martel?

You haven't proven shit. Just because you say something is true doesn't make it true.


I haven't? Last I checked, I proved that Martel was a credible champion, had a two-year long reign in a top rated promotion, held three tag team titles during a time when tag team wrestling surpassed any other midcard titles, and most of all, I proved that you don't know jack shit about the NWA and need to go back and do some homework.

I think I've proven enough.

I'll take multiple IC and US title reigns over one TV title and a few tag titles.


Feel free. But I'll stick by a guy who won those tag titles during a time and era when tag titles were not hot potatoes like the IC and US titles were for Rhodes when HE won them. Oh, and I'll also stick by a former world champion.

I'm not discarding him but no way is he better then Rhodes.


Rhodes could even clean the dried up piss drops off Martel's toilet bowl. Stop living in your dream world and start thinking about Martel's true PRIME, which was before wrestling as you know it today. He is a legend in this business and is always tarnished by ONE of his gimmicks that he had in the WWE - The Model. I will fully admit that he didn't do jack shit with that gimmick except for some great runs in a few Royal Rumbles and a bunch of memorable feuds with the likes of Jake Roberts, Shawn Michaels, and Tito Santana. But that's not where he paved his legacy. The AWA is where that all happened. And like I have proven, holding an AWA title prior to 1985 was considered to be a top world title in the wrestling world, just under the NWA title.

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Martina Birk

Update: 2024-05-08